Nationality of my Baby

Hi,

I have been living in the UK for almost two years and I am now married. I am a German citizen (German born and bread) and my husband originally comes from Sierra Leone. Through his father his Nationality is British Overseas (because Sierra Leone was British territory when his father was born). Anyways my husband has been living in the UK for almost 10 years and has indefinite leave to remain. British Overseas Citizen is not the same as British, but I understand that other European countries would "treat" him as British.

Now my question relates to my pregnancy. What Nationality will my baby be when it is born? Will it be British, because it was born here or will it have my German Nationality? And if so, what would I have to do for my baby to become British? Does the baby's Nationa;ity depend on that of the parents?

zoomy wrote:



Assuming the child is going to be born in the UK ...

Your child should be British automatically because your husband is deemed
'settled' in the UK (as you say he has indefinite leave to remain).

Your child will also be a German citizen based on your nationality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law

The child will not be required to renounce British citizenship in order to
retain German, or vice versa.


Out of interest, why has your husband not upgraded to full British
citizenship? If he's a British Overseas citizen with permanent residence
(and with 5 years legal residence in the UK), he can apply to be
*registered* as a British citizen. This is simpler than naturalisation:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/applying/british_nationality/application_forms/guide_to_registration0.html

Are you sure he's really is a British Overseas citizen? Has he got a
passport indicating this nationality? If not, he'll have to naturalise
to become British (a few extra requirements, still not a problem for most
people).

Other European countries will *not* treat him as British unless he becomes a
full British citizen. British Overseas citizens are not "United Kingdom
nationals for European Union purposes".

For the future, you should look to get Indefinite Leave to Remain yourself
(after 4 years, unless you can get it sooner based on your marriage) as
this gives you more rights in the UK. It will also allow you to apply
for British citizenship yourself, if thats' what you want to do. You can
keep your German citizenship provided you get permission from the German
government in advance to obtain British citizenship.

Thanks a lot. I found out it will be German as well, which is great in case we should decide to move there



The child will not be required to renounce British citizenship in order to
retain German, or vice versa.


Out of interest, why has your husband not upgraded to full British
citizenship? If he's a British Overseas citizen with permanent residence
(and with 5 years legal residence in the UK), he can apply to be
*registered* as a British citizen. This is simpler than naturalisation:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/applying/british_nationality/application_forms/guide_to_registration0.html

He only received his indefenite leave last year and because we thought he would have to go through Naturalization we couldn't do that because it is quite costly and we are both studying at the moment. So there is not much spare money to spend...

I'm gonna check the links in a minute. Do you have to pay to register as a British citizen as well?



Are you sure he's really is a British Overseas citizen? Has he got a
passport indicating this nationality? If not, he'll have to naturalise
to become British (a few extra requirements, still not a problem for most
people).

Yes, I checked again just to make sure, it says clearly British Overseas Citizen under Nationality



Other European countries will *not* treat him as British unless he becomes a
full British citizen. British Overseas citizens are not "United Kingdom
nationals for European Union purposes".

For the future, you should look to get Indefinite Leave to Remain yourself
(after 4 years, unless you can get it sooner based on your marriage) as
this gives you more rights in the UK. It will also allow you to apply
for British citizenship yourself, if thats' what you want to do. You can
keep your German citizenship provided you get permission from the German
government in advance to obtain British citizenship.

Thanks for the info. Would I have to apply for a Resident permit first in order to be able to apply for Indefinite Leave to remain later? I have been living here for almost 2 years, but without applying for any kind of document as I did not see it as necessary.

zoomy wrote:



You should apply for the child to have both British and German passports as
soon as possible after birth. It's best to document citizenship early on.
If Germany issues birth certificates or citizenship certificates, then you
should make sure the child has one of these as well as a passport.

Anecdotally, some officials at the UK Passport Office may not understand
that children born to permanent residents of the UK are British - you may
need to be assertive if you encounter problems. If the father has
indefinite leave to remain, is resident in the UK & married to the mother,
then the UK born child is British automatically. The law is very clear on
that.



He only received his indefenite leave last year and because we thought
he would have to go through Naturalization we couldn't do that because
it is quite costly and we are both studying at the moment. So there is
not much spare money to spend...

I'm gonna check the links in a minute. Do you have to pay to register
as a British citizen as well?[/quote]


There is a fee for adult registration. It's a little less than
naturalisation. Registrations are processed more quickly than
naturalisations.

He'll need to wait a year after getting his indefinite leave to be eligible
to apply for registration on the grounds of living in the UK.

If he has no other citizenship then maybe he could register immediately
however this gives British citizenship 'by descent' - if he registers on
the basis of living in the UK he becomes British 'otherwise than by
descent'- which could become important if you have children born outside
the UK.


Yes, I checked again just to make sure, it says clearly British
Overseas Citizen under Nationality
[/quote]


As noted, he has no rights in any other European country as a British
Overseas citizen. If you are thinking of moving to Germany at any stage,
then British citizenship will make things very much simpler.

He may even need a visa to visit European countries.

Also - as a British Overseas citizen he is not eligible for the United
States visa waiver scheme, or the Australian Electronic Travel Authority.



Thanks for the info. Would I have to apply for a Resident permit first
in order to be able to apply for Indefinite Leave to remain later? I
have been living here for almost 2 years, but without applying for any
kind of document as I did not see it as necessary.
[/quote]

You need the residence permit first before it can be endorsed with
permission to remain indefinitely. You could obtain the permit now, and
once you have the 4 years, apply for indefinite leave.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk has information.

JAJ schrieb:




I am not sure this permission is easy to get.

Regards, ULF

JAJ schrieb:



See <http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/eintragung_von_kindern_im_euro.html
and http://www.berlin.de/standesamt1/index.html



Yes, I checked again just to make sure, it says clearly British
Overseas Citizen under Nationality




As noted, he has no rights in any other European country as a British
Overseas citizen. If you are thinking of moving to Germany at any stage,
then British citizenship will make things very much simpler.[/quote]

Although he may come as a spouse of a German citizen.

He may even need a visa to visit European countries.

Also - as a British Overseas citizen he is not eligible for the United
States visa waiver scheme, or the Australian Electronic Travel Authority.[/quote]

Agree with these points.


Thanks for the info. Would I have to apply for a Resident permit first
in order to be able to apply for Indefinite Leave to remain later? I
have been living here for almost 2 years, but without applying for any
kind of document as I did not see it as necessary.



You need the residence permit first before it can be endorsed with
permission to remain indefinitely. You could obtain the permit now, and
once you have the 4 years, apply for indefinite leave.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk has information.[/quote]

Couldn't find quickly which kind of residence permit shall be issued to
EU citizens.

Regards, ULF

Thanks, we're gonna wait till that one year period has passed which should be in July.


You need the residence permit first before it can be endorsed with
permission to remain indefinitely. You could obtain the permit now, and
once you have the 4 years, apply for indefinite leave.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk has information.

Not sure if I will go that route since we are not planning on staying in Britain for too long. 4 years is a long time, I'm gonna have to think about that more.

JAJ schrieb:


For the future, you should look to get Indefinite Leave to Remain yourself
(after 4 years, unless you can get it sooner based on your marriage) as
this gives you more rights in the UK. It will also allow you to apply
for British citizenship yourself, if thats' what you want to do. You can
keep your German citizenship provided you get permission from the German
government in advance to obtain British citizenship.
I am not sure this permission is easy to get.

Regards, ULF

Not sure either, maybe I won't need it anyways


See <http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/eintragung_von_kindern_im_euro.html
and http://www.berlin.de/standesamt1/index.html


Thanks, that's very helpful.

Ulf Kutzner wrote:



From:
http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/citizenship.html

"Already under the previous citizenship and naturalization laws, it was
possible to retain German citizenship, provided strict requirements were
met. However, in the interest of avoiding dual citizenship, the provision
was interpreted very narrowly. The new provision largely does away with the
former strict criteria, thus making it considerably easier for Germans to
retain their German citizenship. The main requirement is that applicants
must be able to credibly show that they still have continuing ties to
Germany. This could consist of ongoing relationships to close relatives
living in Germany, existing ownership of real estate in Germany, or pension
or insurance claims."

It may also be easier to get this permission if the 'other' country
concerned is a member of the EU (I haven't got a specific reference to
hand, however).

A German immigration/nationality lawyer ought to be able to assist in this
process.

Ulf Kutzner wrote:


This is the start point:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/applying/general_caseworking/eea_eu_nationals.html

Ulf Kutzner wrote:



It's still simpler to have a full British passport and then not need any
kind of visa for Germany.

Also, a full British passport means:
- easier travel to other European countries, plus residence rights there if
desired (independently of spouse)
- no problems coming back to the UK later, if desired

JAJ schrieb:




That's why I wrote


He may even need a visa to visit European countries.

Also - as a British Overseas citizen he is not eligible for the United
States visa waiver scheme, or the Australian Electronic Travel Authority.


Agree with these points.[/quote]

Regards, ULF

JAJ schrieb:




I see.

"But, if you want, you can apply to us for a residence permit (if you
are a national of the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia,
Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia or Slovenia and you are working, you may
need to register under the Worker Registration Scheme before you are
eligible to apply for a residence permit. Further information is
available on the website www.workingintheuk.gov.uk). A residence permit
simply confirms that you have a right to live in the United Kingdom
under European Community law.

You will need to apply for a residence permit if your family members
want to apply for a residence document (see 'Your family's rights').

How do I apply for a residence permit?

You will need to apply to us in writing. It would be helpful to us if
you used form EEA1 which is available on this website.

To apply for a residence permit, get form EEA1."


"The information in the following section will be most relevant to
members of your family who are not EEA nationals (non-EEA family members).

Can my family join me in the United Kingdom?

Yes, if you have a right to live in the United Kingdom, your family may
join you.

Under European Community law, your family includes:


your husband or wife;
your, or your husband's or wife's, children or grandchildren (if they
are under 21 or, if they are over 21 and dependent on you); and
dependent relatives, for example, your husband's or wife's parents and
grandparents.
If you are a student, only your husband or wife and your dependent
children can join you."

Well, I know the husband is already in the U.K.

"How can my family member apply for a residence document?

They will need to apply to us in writing. It would be helpful to us if
they used form EEA2 which is available on this website.

To apply for a residence document, get form EEA2.

We will need:

your passport or national identity card;


your residence permit (you will need to apply for one if you do not
already have one);
proof that you still have a right to live in the United Kingdom;
your family member's passport; and
proof of the relationship between you and your family member (if your
husband or wife is applying, we will need to see proof that you are
legally married, for example, your marriage certificate).
All documents should be originals.

If you are a national of one of the new member states and you are in
employment, your family members will not be eligible for a residence
document unless you are eligible for a residence permit. However, if you
have registered under the Worker Registration Scheme, they can obtain a
family member residence stamp. Applications for family member residence
stamps should be made on form FMRS and sent to the address detailed on
the form.

Can you refuse to give my family an EEA family permit, residence
document or family member residence stamp?

We will not give your family an EEA family permit, residence document or
family member residence stamp if you do not have a right of residence in
the United Kingdom.

We will not treat a non-EEA husband or wife who is part of a marriage of
convenience as a member of your family. A marriage of convenience is one
that is for immigration purposes only, with neither partner planning to
live with the other as husband and wife in a genuine relationship.

Can my family work in the United Kingdom?

Yes, your family can work in the United Kingdom. They do not need a work
permit.

Could my family lose their right to stay in the United Kingdom?

Your family could lose their right of residence in the United Kingdom if
you:

no longer have a right of residence in the United Kingdom;
leave the United Kingdom permanently; or
are not working in the United Kingdom and either you or your family need
help from public funds.
Your husband or wife may lose their right of residence in the United
Kingdom if you divorce.

Other information

How much does it cost to get a residence permit, residence document or
EEA family permit?

They are all free.

How can I apply for permission to stay in the United Kingdom indefinitely?

European Economic Area Nationals may apply for permanent residence if
they have completed 4 years of residence in the United Kingdom during
which time they have been either in employment, self-employment, or been
economically self-sufficient. Those who have been dependant on the
income of a spouse / family member may also apply. Time spent as a
student does not though count towards the 4 years qualifying period.

Third country nationals who are either the spouses or dependant family
members of European Economic Area nationals may apply independently for
permanent residence if they have lived in the United Kingdom for 4
years. However, they will need to provide evidence that their European
Economic Area family member has lived in the United Kingdom and been
engaged in employment, self-employment, or been economically
self-sufficient, during this qualifying period.

Swiss nationals and their dependant family members will qualify in the
same way.

Applications for permanent residence can be made using form EEA3 which
is available on this website.

To apply for permanent residence, get form EEA3.

Applications for permanent residence by family members of EEA nationals,
who are not themselves EEa nationals, can be made using form EEA4 which
is available on this website.

To apply for permanent residence as a non-EEA national, get form EEA4.

However, it is a requirement of the rules that a European Economic Area
national should have been issued a Residence Permit before they can
qualify for permanent residence . If a Residence Permit has not been
applied for prior to the completing of the qualifying period an
applicant should also complete form EEA1. Both applications should be
forwarded together to European Casework.

Passports or National Identity cards should be supplied along with
evidence of 4 years employment, self-employment, or economic
self-sufficiency. This could take the form of 4 P60 tax certificates or
a letter from the Inland Revenue confirming the payment of income tax.
These circumstances, as well as the circumstances in which permanent
residence would not be required are explained in nationality leaflets,
for example BN7 and BN9 (children)"

Regards, ULF

JAJ schrieb:



Meanwhile, I found
<http://www.bva.bund.de/imperia/md/content/abteilungen/abteilungiii/iii6/97.pdf

Regards, ULF

JAJ schrieb:


http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/citizenship.html

"Already under the previous citizenship and naturalization laws, it was
possible to retain German citizenship, provided strict requirements were
met. However, in the interest of avoiding dual citizenship, the provision
was interpreted very narrowly. The new provision largely does away[/quote]
with the
former strict criteria, thus making it considerably easier for Germans to
retain their German citizenship. The main requirement is that applicants
must be able to credibly show that they still have continuing ties to
Germany. This could consist of ongoing relationships to close relatives
living in Germany, existing ownership of real estate in Germany, or[/quote]
pension
or insurance claims."

It may also be easier to get this permission if the 'other' country
concerned is a member of the EU (I haven't got a specific reference to
hand, however).

A German immigration/nationality lawyer ought to be able to assist in[/quote]
this
process.[/quote]


Meanwhile, I found
<http://www.bva.bund.de/imperia/md/content/abteilungen/abteilungiii/iii6/97.pdf



<http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/erwerb_einer_auslandischen_sta.html


Regardsw, ULF

JAJ schrieb:


http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/citizenship.html

"Already under the previous citizenship and naturalization laws, it was
possible to retain German citizenship, provided strict requirements were
met. However, in the interest of avoiding dual citizenship, the provision
was interpreted very narrowly. The new provision largely does away[/quote]
with the
former strict criteria, thus making it considerably easier for Germans to
retain their German citizenship. The main requirement is that applicants
must be able to credibly show that they still have continuing ties to
Germany. This could consist of ongoing relationships to close relatives
living in Germany, existing ownership of real estate in Germany, or[/quote]
pension
or insurance claims."

It may also be easier to get this permission if the 'other' country
concerned is a member of the EU (I haven't got a specific reference to
hand, however).

A German immigration/nationality lawyer ought to be able to assist in[/quote]
this
process.[/quote]


Meanwhile, I found
<http://www.bva.bund.de/imperia/md/content/abteilungen/abteilungiii/iii6/97.pdf


<http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/erwerb_einer_auslandischen_sta.html


Regards, ULF

Thanks for all the great advice.

Both of you mentioned that my husband might need a Visa to travel to Germany. I was not aware of that at all and we were planning on a trip this year.

Do you know this for sure or is it a guess?

Where would I have to apply and how long do you think the process will take?

This is really annoying actually, but it is good I know the situaton now rather than when it's too late.

zoomy schrieb:



http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/do_you_need_a_visa_for_germany.html

Holders of British Passports/Travel Documents:

To enter Germany without a visa, you must have one of these:

British "European Community" passport issued in or after August 1988

British "Isle of Man", "Jersey" and "Guernsey/Dependencies" passports

British Subject passport, with the additional entry: British Dependent
Territories citizen passport, with the additional entry: Holder is defined
as a UK National for community purposes.


Travel Documents according with the Convention of July 28, 1951

Travel Documents according with the Convention of September 28, 1954

The Travel Documents must be valid for at least another four months at
time of entry into Germany

If you do not have any of the above passports, you will need a
Visa to enter Germany.



Where would I have to apply and how long do you think the process will
take?[/quote]

It depends on the kind of your travel. Travel to settle in Germany will
require the agreement of the local foreigners office before the visa can
be issued. In your case, the visa officers may think you plan to settle
in Germany even while asking for a non-settlement visa. They might also
question your marriage certificate. It might need an official
recognition procedure for settlement.

See <http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/which_documents_do_i_need_.html

Spouses of a European Union Citizen

For all kind of short stay visas
Original of your spouse�s European Union passport plus one copy.
Original of your marriage certificate plus one copy.
Travel health insurance by form E 111. Attention: Make sure that you get
the new E 111 form. The old one is not valid anymore since 01 June 2004
and treatment will be refused.





<http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/matrimonial_and_family_law_fra.html
seems to be quite empty.

<http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/application_form_for_a_visa_an.html
<http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/department_-_legal___consular.html
<http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/contact_us.html
is helpful.

Opening hours



The Visa, Passport, and Consular is open from Monday to Friday 9.00am to
12.00 noon.



How to contact us

London
Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany
Side Entrance
23 Belgrave Square
(See Map below)
London
SW1X 8PZ
Tel. 020 7824 1300
Fax. 020 7824 1449
E-Mail: consular@german-embassy.org.uk*
*The consular department regrets it is unable to deal with visa, matters
via e-mail

More Embassy contacts
Edinburgh
Consulate General of the Federal Republic of Germany
16 Eglinton Crescent
Edinburgh EH 12 5DG
Scotland
Tel. ( 00 44 131 ) 337 2323
Fax : ( 00 44 131 ) 346 1578



See also
<http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/de/laenderinfos/adressen/dtl_vertretung?land_id=189&path_id=Vertretungen
Honorary consuls might not be competent for visa matters.

I understand the visa should be free of charge for your husband.

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsv.html#52

This is really annoying actually, but it is good I know the situaton
now rather than when it's too late.[/quote]

You might try to get a residence card for him after you got your UK
residence permit.

<http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004L0038R(01):EN:HTML

Article 10.
Article 5 might be interesting for your husband.


Regards, ULF

Thanks, I have visited the link before and found it very helpful.



Where would I have to apply and how long do you think the process will
take?
I found out that the fee for visa applications for adults normally is:

All types of visa: €35.00

Residence permit: €30.00

... and the process normally takes 14 days for succesful visas.



It depends on the kind of your travel. Travel to settle in Germany will
require the agreement of the local foreigners office before the visa can
be issued. In your case, the visa officers may think you plan to settle
in Germany even while asking for a non-settlement visa. They might also
question your marriage certificate. It might need an official
recognition procedure for settlement.
We only intend to go for a short visit and not for settlement. My husband has settle status in the UK and is completing his studies this year while I still have another year of studies ahead of me. There is no reason to question our marriage. We have been married for 1 and 1/2 years now and a baby is on the way. But I understand your point and officials always see things with different eyes.



See <http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/which_documents_do_i_need_.html

Spouses of a European Union Citizen

For all kind of short stay visas
Original of your spouse?s European Union passport plus one copy.
Original of your marriage certificate plus one copy.
Travel health insurance by form E 111. Attention: Make sure that you get
the new E 111 form. The old one is not valid anymore since 01 June 2004
and treatment will be refused.
I guess I'm gonna have to get one of those forms and get a travel insurace for him. Is form E 111 to apply for the insurance or just to confirm that you have one? I'm a bit confused about this one.



I understand the visa should be free of charge for your husband.
As stated earlier I believe the fee should be €35, as seen here: http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/visa_fees.html .



You might try to get a residence card for him after you got your UK
residence permit.
In July he will be able to apply for registration as British Citizen (He will have his indefinite leave to remain for one year then) which we will defenitely do straight away. And if everything goes well we won't have all this visa trouble anymore and at Christmas we might be able to visit my family in Germany with the new baby peacefully and without any hassle about travel documents.

Thanks for all your advice and research. You have been very helpful to me and I am much clearer about everything now.

zoomy wrote:



Why a fee? Because your husband is a family member of an EU citizen,
you, the Schengen visa to be issued to him will be free. You just have
to prove the family connection and that you are indeed a Citizen of an
EU country.

EU legislation dictates that no charge can be made.

Alright, that's easy then :) Thanks. Gonna have to visit the Embassy soon then. Need to change my last name as well. Haven't managed to do that in 1 and 1/2 years. Shame on me.

Will I have to enter the date of required entry to Germany for the visa? If not for how long will the visa be issued? We don't know dates yet because we were planning a rather spontaneous visit.

zoomy wrote:

Can I ask, how are you getting to Germany? Flying there? Or driving and
going to France first visa the tunnel or ferry?

If first going to France before proceeding on to Germany the application
could be made at the French Consulate. I mention that because France
tends to be better than some other countries concerning the issuing of
Schengen visas, compared to some others, for example Austria or Finland.

If issued by France your husband can expect to get a six-month Schengen
visa, each visit to the Schengen area limited to 90 days. A subsequent
such visa should be for one year, again limited to 90 days on each such
visit.

Again if applying to France, no need to answer any of the starred
questions on the application form.

Apply to Germany? Not sure how they react to applications for Schengen
visas.

We are definitely flying to Germany for so many reasons: Cheaper, quicker, long journeys are not too nice during pregnancy :)

So we'd have to apply to Germany still. I read on the application form that he wouldn't have to fill in the starred boxes either, since I am EU citizen.

Am I right assuming that a Schengen visa is not only granted for Entry in the country you apply to, but for a entry in a number of other European / EU countries as well? I assumed that, because you said I could apply to France instead when my destination is Germany.

zoomy wrote:


A Schengen visa covers the whole Schengen area .... 15 countries ....
the 15 countries in the EU immediately prior to 10 more joining on
01.05.04 .... less the UK and Ireland .... plus Norway and Iceland.

The rule is that you should apply for your Schengen visa to the country
that is going to be the Main Destination, or if there is not going to be
a main destination, because of travelling around, to the first Schengen
area country you will enter.

So having got to Germany there is nothing to stop visits to Luxembourg,
Austria etc.. Indeed a visit to Switzerland is also OK because the Swiss
have decided to recognise Schengen visas as well.

Once inside the Schengen area there are effectively no border controls.
On land borders there are no longer any border controls, and even flying
between different Schengen countries means no immigration-style checks.
At first that amazed us, for example, flying between Spain and Denmark.
Passports used as ID to check in, but no immigration-style checks either
on leaving Spain nor on arriving in Denmark.

John schrieb:



Since when? There was a positive referendum, but what was or will be the
implementation date?
Is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_treaty outdated?

Regards & X-post, ULF

------------------
There was a referendum with positive result
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4610729.stm
and there're negotiations and as I can read out it's likely that Switzerland
is included in Schengen from 2007
http://www.europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33020.htm
But as Switzerland is NOT a member of the Schengen treaty for the moment you
can't enter Switzerland on a Schengen visa. Depending on your citizenship
you must have the document required from Switzerland.
A common mistake, obviously also from EU, is that the Schengen treaty was
signed in the village Schengen.
It wasn't, as Schengen is a rural village without any facilities but the
treaty was signed on a ship being in the river outside Schengen where the
borders of Luxembourg,France and Germany meets.

Ulf Kutzner wrote:

I said <<Indeed a visit to Switzerland is also OK because the Swiss have
decided to recognise Schengen visas as well. and I stand by that. But
it is nothing to do with Switzerland going to become a member of the
Schengen area. The Swiss also recognise long-term UK visas. For example
someone in the UK on a two-year spouse visa, or ILR, can use that to
enter Swiss as a tourist .... no separate Swiss visa required.

At the moment, according to the website of the Swiss Embassy in London -
"7) NATIONAL & OFFICIAL PASSPORT WITH SCHENGEN VISA
Nationals of the following countries do NOT require a visa to travel to
Switzerland if they hold a passport valid for three months after leaving
Switzerland, endorsed with a multi-entry Schengen visa, valid for all
Schengen states:
Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan (Republic of China,
ordinary passports only), Thailand, United Arab Emirates"

so it's by no means everyone, yet....

paul

John schrieb:



[...]
The rule is that you should apply for your Schengen visa to the
country that is going to be the Main Destination, or if there is not
going to be a main destination, because of travelling around, to the
first Schengen area country you will enter.

So having got to Germany there is nothing to stop visits to
Luxembourg, Austria etc.. Indeed a visit to Switzerland is also OK
because the Swiss have decided to recognise Schengen visas as well.


Since when? There was a positive referendum, but what was or will be
the implementation date?
Is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_treaty outdated?

I said <<Indeed a visit to Switzerland is also OK because the Swiss have
decided to recognise Schengen visas as well. and I stand by that. But
it is nothing to do with Switzerland going to become a member of the
Schengen area. The Swiss also recognise long-term UK visas.[/quote]

Or permits or how they call them. But I do not believe UK authorities
issue Schengen visas.

For example
someone in the UK on a two-year spouse visa, or ILR, can use that to
enter Swiss as a tourist .... no separate Swiss visa required.[/quote]

So, for the British overseas husband holding an ILR it might be okay.
Indeed,
<http://www.eda.admin.ch/london_emb/e/home/trach/visares/tranvis.html#0004
doesn't kook bad for him.

Regards, ULF

For example
someone in the UK on a two-year spouse visa, or ILR, can use that to
enter Swiss as a tourist .... no separate Swiss visa required.[/quote]

So, for the British overseas husband holding an ILR it might be okay.
Indeed,
<http://www.eda.admin.ch/london_emb/e/home/trach/visares/tranvis.html#0004
doesn't kook bad for him.

Regards, ULF


Wow, the Swiss are pretty open here. So he could enter Switzerland just like that?! Pity that I come from the other end of Germany ;)

But nevermind, we weren't planning on visiting Switzerland anyways. Just need the time to get to the embassy in London now and get that EHIC for him as well.

Paul ... you are of course quite right! What I said about the Swiss
accepting others visas does not apply to all nationalities .... but only
those listed by you.

As this thread is about someone from Sierra Leone ... sorry to mislead
..... a visa would be required to enter Switzerland.

Not really sorry to say, I think you are wrong on this one according to this site: http://www.eda.admin.ch/london_emb/e/home/trach/visares/tranvis.html#0004

Travellers wishing to enter Switzerland or Liechtenstein for the purpose of tourism, business trips and visits do NOT require a Swiss visa if they hold a valid:

1) BRITISH PASSPORT

Must contain one of the following remarks:
"British Citizen", "British Subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies", "British Protected Person", "British Dependent Territories Citizen", "British Overseas Citizen", "British National (Overseas)". Passports must be valid beyond the date of departure from Switzerland

The reference to "British Subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and
Colonies" is interesting. The last passport issued showing this as the
nationality of the holder would have been issued on 31 December 1982, and
would have been valid for a maximum of 10 years. It has been a while since
that paragraph was updated, then...

paul